Oral History Project: With My Grandmother

Abstract

In this interview, my grandmother, Margaret Kelly remembers and speaks on her live living in Wilmington, Delaware. When asked about heritage and their views, my grandmother talks about never being encouraged to act differently or rude towards African Americans. My grandmother shares about attending schools together and what it felt like to view the protests but never had any bad interactions with African Americans. I believe this interview reveals a look into different types of people no matter what the skin color. When asked if she had any friends who were racist towards Blacks my grandmother responded that she did not surround herself with those kind of people.

My name is Madeline Kelly, today is May 2, 2015. It is about 6:30 pm, I am interviewing Margret Kelly born April 26, 1948 in Wilmington, Delaware. This interview takes place in Allamuchy, New Jersey.

MK: How would you describe your parents when it comes to new ideas and new situations?

MK: I believe that they were very open, I think it was a generation that uh-mm, there's people whose parents had gone through a rough time and a’ made it, and I think they were very optimistic as far as their future and the future of their children.

MK: And uhh directly towards the topic of African Americans coming into your community and coming into their lives when they were younger as well?

MK: I do not recall my parents having too much interaction with blacks in their era, as I went to school after 3rd grade we did have a interaction with black children. It was never a problem, my parents never told us anything but to respect them and to treat them as we would any other person we came across.

MK: So your parents haven’t told you any stories about them growing up around African Americans or any of their interactions with them?

MK: No, I don’t know they had much interaction with Negroes.

MK: What did your group of friends look like when you were younger?

MK: uh-mm, average middle class children, parents were working, you know the regular 9 to 5 job, we probably went out to play after school uh-mm…

MK: Were they White?

MK: Yes, they were all White, yes.

MK: Did your group of friends evolve in color as you grew older? Or did they primarily stay White?

MK: A lot of my group of friends stayed in contact after we started High school, I did meet a lot of black children, when I went into High school. I had never had any problems we got along well, we ate lunch together. We spoke, we really didn’t have any problems. Uh-mm.

MK: And what year is this?

MK: And this would be in the uh-mm, this would be in the 60’s. I started High School in 1962, and I graduated in 66 so all through that time we had you know, a relationship with African Americans who were in our classes and so forth and never had any problems, we always got along well together.

MK: Do you happen to remember your first interaction with an African American?

MK: (Pause) Yes, that would have been back in my Elementary school a’ in 3rd grade the school I was attending, was integrated.

MK: was this, this was a catholic school?

MK: This was a catholic school, and the small catholic church, not far from where I went closed. And these children started coming to our school, that was my first interaction was in 3rd grade with black children and never had a problem.

MK: How did you feel during the Civil Right’s movement? During a’ protests and any other type of movement that African Americans projected?

MK: I did have a sincere feeling for them, uh-mm it was probably a little hard for me to understand all the facts completely. But I realized these are people a lot of them I went to school with and I thought of that when I saw these protests I thought ‘I went to school with these people.’ And that they were good people, and that they felt maybe portrayed or, or ya know there was someone, like Martin Luther King who, who was assassinated and the reaction I could understand. Do I agree with it? No, because I don’t agree with violence, but I can understand where they were probably coming from.

MK: Do you feel a sense of closeness to the idea of feeling mistreated or misunderstood because of our heritage of being Irish?

MK: Yes I do, I think that every nationality that came to the United states went through a period of unacceptance, and had to sort of earn their way. The blacks I think were a little different because they were slaves and they were freed. Just a whole different evolve, evolvement of things where they evolved differently than other nationalities that came to this Country. And a’ I think it still goes on to even today a great degree.

MK: Do you remember where you were during the march on Washington?

MK: I was probably living at home, with my mother. My father had passed away at that point. uh-mm, I remember thinking about it saying ‘wow, ya know look at all this destruction and everything else.’ and it was kind of a’ new to you, you know when you’re experiencing something like this for the first time it’s like, wow. I don’t think I had a yes or no about it, just kind of you sat back and you saw it on TV and you just kinda’ watched it. I but you know it was hard to think that people that I knew that were black were actually doing these things, I couldn't believe they would be burning houses and turning cars over and stuff like that. uh-mm, but basically I can’t say, it was like a new experience, you didn’t know how to react to it.

MK: Right, so did you watch Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech on television?

MK: Yes I did.

MK: And how did the speech make you feel the first time you heard it?

MK: I was very moved by his speech, I wouldn’t say I cried but my eyes certainly filled up. I thought it was just, his sentiments were just absolutely beautiful and they really related to my christian beliefs and I felt that he was correct. These people should not be treated the way that they were, that they were equal to the rest of us and his dream is really the way it should be.

MK: And where you were growing up at the time, were there any movements in that area?

MK: There were some, nothing like there was in major cities. I lived in Wilmington, Delaware at the time, a Philadelphia at the time I feel was much more active as far as reacting to all this, but a’ Wilmington itself was not as severe no.

MK: Is there a certain event you can remember that happened during the movement that you may have saw on TV, that shocked you or…

MK: You know shocked, I don’t know if i could even use that term, when I watched some of these things on TV, it was like, almost in disbelief. That you just kind of looked at this and said ‘wow is this really happening?’

MK: Right

MK: You know, it a’ it didn’t hit, the actually, the reality of it actually I don’t think really sunk in. Now were speaking of someone who’s some 18 years old and who’s never experienced anything like this, and it just never really hit me, watching this, this a variety of what was really going on, I don’t think I completely understood it.

MK: Within Wilmington did you ever witness any African Americans being treated poorly or differently? At a restaurant, maybe getting your hair done, anything like that?

MK: No, no I was not

MK: You didn’t witness anything at all?

MK: No, nothing at all.

MK: So, within the school you attended, the Catholic Elementary School and the Catholic High School did you feel that any of the teachers had a different…

MK: Attitude or?

MK: Attitude towards the African American students? Can you remember any of them?

MK: No, I really can’t recall anything either in Elementary School which was Catholic, High School was public, so consequently there was probably more African American students attending there. But I don’t I dont recall feeling, of course I wasn’t a black person, but as far from a White persons standpoint feeling that they were treated differently no.

MK: Do you remember having any friends or friends of friends in your group that felt very racist towards African Americans.

MK: No, no I didn’t. But I think you kind of chose your friends based on the way you grew up and who you associated with and I think everybody that I met like that I don’t think I would have stayed with. I don’t think that was part of my upbringing and how I was taught.

MK: And  my last question is, how are your feelings today on the evolution of race and how people are treated today versus how you felt they were growing up?

MK: I still think we have a lot to improve on that is not totally gone uh-mm and not just in the black but in other areas too that people have to learn to accept and to recognize and I, I do think we still have some ground we need to cover on it, most definitely. Things have not changed that greatly.

Research

When my grandmother was talking about Wilmington, Delaware it sounded peaceful and a very warm place. I decided to look deeper into what my grandmother was saying, maybe there was something she had missed. When I looked up Wilmington, Delaware the first thing that stood out was a site that read “Murder Town (a.k.a Wilmington, Delaware.) I thought, this could not be the same place my grandmother grew up in as a child. “Wilmington once again ranked third on the FBI's annual list of most violent cities among cities of comparable size. Wilmington also ranked fifth when compared to all cities with populations greater than 50,000, up from eighth in 2012.” I’ve decided to look deeper into when things took a change for the worse. In my research I found an event that my grandmother did not mention in our interview. “Before any concrete steps could be taken to implement the grand development plan, events intruded on Wilmington as it became part of a tragic national story. The riots that followed the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King in the Spring of 1968 hit Wilmington’s West Center City the hardest, leaving buildings and homes smoldering. The downtown business district received a severe scare but little direct damage. The most damaging aspects were the psychological scars left in its wake and the dramatic overreaction of Delaware’s Governor, Charles Terry. A downstater and former judge, Terry believed an insurrection was underway and kept Delaware National Guard troops on patrol in downtown Wilmington for 9 months, long after the violence had subsided. This became the longest military occupation of an American city since the Civil War. Businesses joined the white flight to the suburbs in ever- greater numbers.” I find this to be an important event in Wilmington, whites took flight after this event which caused the great decline in population. My grandmother moved away from  Wilmington to be with my Grandfather, she never mentioned an event that actually caused a great number of Whites to leave.