Oral History: Clifton Mabry (R.Vaughn)
Abstract
In this interview Clifton Mabry, a 68 year old man from High Point, North Carolina, reflects on his life and important events that happened in his life during the 60’s. He also touches on some of the events from the Civil Rights Movement and how it affected his life in mostly positive ways. This interview doesn’t really touch on key components of the Civil Rights Movements because it is told from the point of view of Northerner, but it does get into significant events that occurred.
Research
Emmett Till was brought up in this interview. Emmett Till was a fourteen year old boy that was murdered and tortured for flirting with a white woman. His accused killers were put on trail, but were acquitted by an all white male jury. His death sent shockwaves and opened eyes across the world because he was nothing, but a child who was ignorant to the fact that behaving the way he did would be problematic. Mentioned previously, his accused killers did eventually admit to killing Till, but were never put on for retrial.
Something else that was mentioned in the interview was the riots on Columbia Avenue. These riots began when two Philadelphia police officers responded to a domestic dispute at 22nd and Columbia. The dispute ended up drawing a crowd that attacked the police officers with bricks and various forms of debris, but the officers didn’t get attacked because of their efforts to stop the dispute, but because of rumors and misleading information. The misleading information was that a white police officer beat a pregnant black woman to death. Looters took over stores, crime rates skyrocketed, and business were lost or destroyed. Once the riots were over and North Philadelphia was restored the long lasting effects of the riots began to take place.
The murders of two white males and a black male was another thing mentioned in the interview. The three men killed were Michael Schwerner, Andrew Goodman, and James Chaney. These three men were on there way back from a trip to Philadelphia. While on their way back deputy sheriff/KKK member Cecil Price pulled the trio over for speeding. He held the men in custody while the rest of the Klan set up for the murder. Once the Klan finished they were let go. Later down the road the trio was closed in by two Klan cars and the three were shot in their heads and put into hand made graves.
Sources
KKK MurderTranscript
Rymir Vaughn: “Good afternoon Mr.Cliff.”
Clifton Mabry: “Good afternoon.”
RV: How. “How you doing today?”
CM: “I’m alright.”
RV: “Well if you don’t mind I would like to ask you a few questions.”
CM: “Sure.”
RV: “So, what are some things that you remember about the 60’s?”
CM: “Ohhh... I remember the best things to me were.. the dances, the.. not too much school, you know what I mean we were really do too much in school, but the friendships that I had with the people that I grew up with you know, and friends of uh my family and the friends of my friends family you know. We all got along you know and it was all one big happy family. Put that down there hahaha.”
RV: “Uh. Is there anything that you remember like about the historical aspect of the 60’s?”
CM: “Uhh let’s see. Ohh my goodness! Yes, I remember the riots on Cecil B. Moore, but it was it was Columbus Av.. uh Columbus uhh Avenue then, but the riots. Well, I think that was sixty in sixty-three sixty-two somewhere around there. And they really tore up the whole from 7th street to uhh just about 30th street.They tore up everything. Just like the riots in L.A. where they burned down everything they did the same thing here. And also that we had a police commissioner that would gung ho. He used to walk around with his billy club in his combull bun. You know what a combull bun is?”
RV: “No. Not at all.”
CM: “When he put on a tuxedo he puts a little like a belt like, but it's not a belt. Its a accessory.”
RV: “Oh. Oh. Oh.”
CM: “Its called a combull bun he used to walk around with his billy club. His name was Frank Rizzo, and uh we had uh when he was the police commissioner we didn’t have a whole lot of crime, but now we ya mean we den’ stepped it up now. I don't know what these poli. police commissioners is doin’ now.”
RV: “Ok. So, are there any similarities or differences you notice about the 60’s and now?”
CM: “Naw. No similarities whatsoever. Things have changed so much people have speed it up. They have speed it up whereas there is no respect in the world. Children are all raised by single parents now. Whereas back then you had two parents. You know you don't have that today in most houses.”
RV: “Yeah.. So, has the 60’s had an impact on your life now?
CM: “On my life. Sure. It has whereas I’ve made it this far. I’ll be sixty-nine memorial day. So, therefore I made it this far, so it had an impact. I was watching my P’s and Q’s. Hahaha.”
RV: “So, what part of the 60’s do you remember the most and why?”
CM: “Uh. let’s see. Oh the part that I remember my first child being born in sixty-three. That’s the really part that I remember. That’s for me. Because I became a dad. You know I was too young to really understand it fully, you know I’m just saying what I was supposed to do, but that was a proud moment for me.”
RV: “So, if you don't mind I would like to get into the historical aspect of the 60’s like the civil rights movement and things like that. What do you remember about Martin Luther King?”
CM: “Uhh lord. Back then we really didn’t know anything about him because we really didn’t focus ourselves on this because we would focus ourselves on other things like uhh every now and then someone would be playing sports, but sometimes we’d be gang warin’ that's what we use to do back in the day. Everybody claimed a corner. In other words like 15th and Oxfr.. uhh.. yeah 15th and Oxford, 15th and Montgomery, and stuff like that, Marshall and Master, 12th and Oxford, 12th and uhh Poplar. These is things that we did back in those days, we claimed corners. You know we bond together you know the people from the neighborhood we bond together to protect each other.You know from other people that live this place and live that place. They would come or we’d go over there you know. Its just that I mean its a different thing then what y’all do today what y’all do today,”
RV: “ So, what about the KKK you remember anything about them?
CM: “Oh my goodness. I heard. Uh what’s this boy. He whistled at a white woman and they uh.. killed em’ they hung em’ I think he was either 12 or 15.”
RV: “Emmett Till”
CM: “Emmett Till. Thats about you know basically about you know as far as knowing anything about that you know. And I believe the three boys 2 white boys and one black boy that they found them in Mississippi I believe it was Mississippi. I’m not sure, but they killed them. Civil Rights Movement you know, but basically nobody really paid attention to that you know cuz being living in the North we didn’t have the problems that they had where somebody could come in the middle of the night and come in you're house and take you out there and hang you we never had that type of thing.”
RV: “So, life in the North was it signif… significantly different from life in the South?”
CM: “Yeah. Yes because I was born in High Point, North Carolina right, and it's basically…. a.. what would you call it like a little country a little country little part it's not like a real big part. Its like say uh Norristown that’s about the size of it so, therefore when my parents brought me up here so, it was entirely different thing entirely different and I had to get used to and I had to grow in order to be accepted.”
RV: “What age did you move from High Point?”
CM: “Uh. I was about 10”
RV: “10… So, was there did you or your parents face any type of racism down when you were in North Carolina”
CM: “Oh yeah. I was little kid, but I didn’t understand it I didn’t understand it, but it was there, but like I said I didn’t understand what was going on, but they knew, but I didn’t understand because I was too young to distinguish from racism from white black and white I was too young I didn't know.I figured everybody was the same.”
RV: “If you could be at one of the signfic.. signi.. significant events that happened back in the 60’s or during the Civil Rights Movement which one would it be and why would you go there?”
CM: “Thats a hard one there. Thats a hard one. Like I said you can quote me we didn't really pay attention and ….. I was like uhh 16 17 18, so therefore I really didn't paid attention to the uh politics and things like this or whatever the Civil Rights and things i didn’t pay attention to that because it didn't at the because in my mentality at that age and where I’m living in the North I didn’t.. I didn't really feel threatened by anything like that.”
RV: “So, how did your parents handle life as African Americans when you were living in the South?”
CM: “Ohh man. I guess they did the best they could you know with what they had you know. They had the minimal jobs you know they they they worked for the um white folks doing house work or whatever, but uhh we made it through we made it through. Thats the best I can say hahaha best I can say we made it through cuz here I am living testament you know here I am. Ya dad old enough he could’ve told you.”
RV: “Well thanks Mr.Cliff.”
CM: “Hey no problem no problem. Always a problem.. Always a pleasure always a pleasure.”
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